Empowered to Repair: An Interview with Brenda Salter McNeil, Part 2

Editor’s Note: This is the second of a three-part interview. Part one can be found here. Part three will appear tomorrow.

My conversation with Brenda Salter McNeil, author of “Empowered to Repair: Becoming People Who Mend Broken Systems and Heal Our Communities” and a pastor on staff at Quest Church in Seattle, Washington, continues. Now we address the perceived absence of the church in the fight for social justice and discuss the question that led to her life’s work.

Starlette Thomas:
You write in the preface, “Christians are perceived as being absent from the work of addressing systemic and structural inequities. Consequently, Christians have little credibility when promoting justice and social change, especially among the next generation of young people who are fighting for their lives.” Why then should they look to these faith leaders to be “empowered to repair”?

Brenda Salter McNeil:
I think we have a lot to do to regain our credibility. I really do. And I think about a quote by James Baldwin who said (Insert my immediate head nod in agreement before she offers said quote.) I love James Baldwin and he says prolific things. And this is short but so poignant. 

He said, “I can’t believe what you say because I see what you do.” And that’s the answer to the question. Christians are gonna’ say how much we care. Christians are gonna’ say how much we’re concerned about injustice and how much we believe in reconciliation. But James Baldwin and the generation looking at us is saying, “I can’t believe what you say because I see what you do.”

So, our faith is supposed to be an active faith not just proclamation about how much we care about things. We have to demonstrate that we care about things and that’s why we have to be involved in the work of reparations
(At this point, my [Starlette’s] right hand went up in agreement before I reminded myself that this was an interview.)

I feel like preaching all of a sudden. Stop pushing me.

ST:
Oh, here we go! I’m trying to stay focused. You’re about to lose me. I’m like, Oh, we’re going to Baldwin. Wait a minute! (Interviewer gains her composure.)

In a chapter titled, “Ask the Right Questions,” you provide the reader with the question that led you to your life’s work, which is “What is it about the issue of race that is so difficult for Christians to make any real progress on addressing?” How would you answer that question today?

BSM:
To be redundant now, I think it’s because I realized that we answer that question through an individualistic lens, right? And I think that we still to this day tend to call people to faith through their own personal experience with God. And so, I think it gives us a way to dismiss ourselves or to explain away why we’re not doing something. Because we can personally say, “I’m not a part of that problem.” …

So, after all these years of doing tis work I would say, maybe two things. I think we don’t understand how deeply embedded racism is into every system and structure that we encounter. That it’s not just what happens when we are dealing with people. There are certain systems bent toward privileging certain people and harming others.

I’m not sure we know how to interrogate those things. Right? I don’t know if we know how to look into the fact that these systems and structures were made so that certain people would have access and have privilege and have first place in being able to access these things and other people would not. 

So that talks about education systems, healthcare systems, housing. It talks about colleges and universities. It talks about all of those things that either allow a person to prosper and reach their full God- given potential or they are hindering certain people. 

For example, let’s talk about immigration. There was a time when there was a sense of pride to say, “My grandparents came over with nothing and they built a little business and I thank God. It was celebrated that these people made such a courageous decision for the good of their family. But that was when Europeans were coming. 

Now, all of a sudden, it is a horrible thing to have people who are doing the exact same thing for the exact same reason but they’re coming from Latin American countries. And all of a sudden that is now a problem and a crisis that we need to stop. You see?

Race is embedded in things and if we don’t tell ourselves the truth about the fact that there’s a racial component, we’ll continue to pretend like race is not also a part of why we stay so divided.

So I think we need to be more honest about it and tell the truth. We wouldn’t treat other people the way we’re treating some of the folks who are coming from Haiti and that’s important to note. Because we don’t want to feel that we actually would have bias against others. 

But we have been socialized in a society. It’s the water we swim in. It’s a biased, racialized society and we’ve got to tell the truth about that.