This is part two of my interview with Jamie Marich, a sought-after speaker and consultant and an expressive artist. Marich is also the author of a new and courageous memoir, “You Lied to Me About God.”
Starlette Thomas: We/you grew up between two religions, our/your mother’s Catholicism and our/your father’s Evangelicalism. Why does it remain important for you all/you to maintain our/your footing in a faith tradition?
Jamie Marich: A lot of it for me is cultural–as an American of Slavic descent (primarily Croatian), the Catholic tradition is so ingrained with the traditions of my people. So keeping one foot in my Catholic faith does feel like a way I both honor and make contact with my ancestors. I keep hearing the term “cultural Catholic” used more widely and that resonates with me/us.
In both traditions, I can also recognize that not everything I received was bad, especially the music. Although I reject so much of what I got on the Evangelical side of my parenting, I still keep a playlist of some of the praise and other church music that meant a lot to me during those years; the music kept us sane! The Catholic side of my upbringing still offers me a great deal of nourishment, especially when I can practice it in more progressive and affirming spaces, like with Abbey of the Arts, a ministry I teach with, and on whose Wisdom Council I serve. I like the “bells and the smells,” as they are referred to, and the wisdom of the saints and early Christian mystics.
Even after everything I went through, I/we never stopped believing in God or some divine force. That’s just our honest journey. So, it makes sense to stay connected in some way.
ST: What is our/your advice to those experiencing what we/you describe as spiritual warfare when caught between two religious or spiritual beliefs?
JM: Ah yes, I call what we experienced the real spiritual warfare as I was literally fought over; not “spiritual warfare” in the way that so many conservative folks use it. I think this tearing inside can show up in many ways, like being caught between two parents and their beliefs as I was. Or being caught between the faith tradition in which you were raised and the faith and spiritual tradition that you are being drawn to as an adult. Many of my queer clients struggle with that pull between an affirming God in which they now believe and still hearing those old messages from condemnatory pastors or parents practicing a more dogmatic faith.
My advice to adults experiencing this is to notice the conflict without judgment; be kind and gentle to yourselves as you navigate it. Be open to all possibilities yet lean into the truths that are revealing themselves to you that align with the authentic life you are being called to live. I find that calling to be divine.
If you are a child living in interfaith conflict or other spiritual warfare or abuse, do whatever you have to do to survive. Your social location as a child might make standing up for yourself impossible right now. And the day will come when you can.
ST: We/You wrote, “For someone like me, to be wounded spiritually is the worst kind of injury to experience. While other abuses, injuries, and adverse life experiences may take place, the spiritual injury can most poisonously sting at the core of our existence?” In our/your estimation, why is this the case?
JM: I think, like most things spiritual, it’s hard to explain that neatly with words. Perhaps because we see ourselves as a being wired for spiritual connection and communion with the Divine, because God lives within us and our very humanity is connected to the humanity that God manifested through Christ. So, when you wound that most important, inexplicable “thing” about us, you wound every part of us.
And the pain is so great. Especially when the injuries made by others involve them misrepresenting the nature of God and Jesus Christ–hence the title “You Lied to Me About God.” Truly, how dare they lie about God and my nature in God/god’s name.
ST: What would we/you say to those who want to reconstruct their faith after abuse?
JM: That you have choices now. So much of the toxic or abusive faith to which we were exposed was void of any kind of choice or agency. So, explore, even if that means trying out different spiritual or religious experiences (trusting your gut of inner wisdom if something seems off) or trying a life without anything spiritual or religious. Nature may be your church or where you find peace.
ST: While a memoir, you all/you summon the reader to interrogate their personal history and to express themselves artistically. Why was this invitation important?
JM: I am an avid reader of memoirs, and for me, memoir works at its best when I am challenged to look at my own shadow by the writer sharing theirs. I am not particularly fond of memoirs that just feel like ‘trauma porn’ and don’t invite me into my own introspection. So, I invite that introspection here and give readers some expressive arts prompts at the end of each chapter to hopefully facilitate if they feel stuck.
ST: We/You wrote, “Not only did they lie to me about God, they lied to me about me. My body. My sexuality. My essence as a person.” Why do we lie about God and about what it means to be human?
JM: We generally lie to keep some illusion of control and power. It can be a protective device. And for me/us, that’s what spiritual abuse is about. The people who do it are trying to get their power needs met on some level.
And keeping it real; I lied to myself before, especially about my sexuality and my true nature, to keep myself safe. I said and did shitty things as a holier-than-thou young person trying to get my own needs met. I get it. I’ve been there, and it could have been so much worse. The cycles continue until we choose to break them.
ST: What do we/ you hope readers will take away from “You Lied to Me About God”?
JM: I hope that readers can identify three main things for themselves: (a) recognizing where they have been lied to (or are being lied to) about God/god in their own lives; (b) recognizing where lies have been or being told to them about themselves in God’s name; (c) tap into a new truth or series of truths that will help them to heal. And to experience the spiritual wonder that comes from living an authentic life.
Director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, an associate editor, host of the Good Faith Media podcast, “The Raceless Gospel” and author of Take Me to the Water: The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church.
